Talk:Main Page/Archive/1

This page is an archive of the Main Talk Page from 21 June 2008 to 19 July 2008. It should not be modified in any way.

Contents

[edit] Game Page Layout

Hey guys, does everyone agree that all the games pages should be aiming for something like:


hellz yeah. Especially after I added teh smexy E4 List. - cmh

I totally agree. This should be the best poke site ^_^ -Benedict

ShinyMilotic

That looks good to me, plenty of detail and accurate description of the game. I would say that is what we should aim for, at least for now.

~~NW7

Turns out we are having the summary in a different page now, just look at Ruby again, that's how the game pages will be.

ShinyMilotic

I just wrote a comment on the Pokemon Blue page wondering whether the summaries should really be in a separate page. To me it seems to be a bit less organized like that and adds unecessary clicking to get some necessary info? Also it makes the main game pages quit short - unless you plan on filling it with lots of other non-linked text?

Redemption

That is how it was before, but some staff wanted it to be on a separate page, I don't really mind, what does everyone else think?

ShinyMilotic

I reckon Summaries should stay on the hub page, as Red said. Much easier to navigate, and saves unnecessary pages. Makes the hub seem more filled out, too, and it should be, seeing as it is the first page you get to see on each game.

--Estuve

I been looking over things I've been wondering if we could add pokemon hacks to the games list? --Remino52

[edit] Pokémon Pages

I made a Pokemon page. Is this layout good for a design?

- Zotic


[edit] Compendium Layout

Also, does everyone think my layout for Gym Compendiums is OK (for example Gym Compendium (Yellow) )? I might add something about the trainers within each gym, although I am not sure it is necessary. Also, pictures? Should we have any pictures of each leader and his/her pokemon?

--Estuve

Adding pictures to enhance any page would be good. :)

ShinyMilotic

Cool - I will have a go, and see if I can do it or not. Is the layout any good? Anything need changing? I have done the same for the DP gyms, too.

--Estuve

I think the layout is good, nice job.

ShinyMilotic

Thanks. I have added a screenshot from Brock's battle. I will try and get a different screenshot for each battle, ie. at different stages in the battle, like talking to the leader, battling specific pokemon, shots of the gyms and puzzles etc. I have a very good source for screenshots, so I don't mind getting them myself, but it will take a day or two to get all of them there, and that is just for Yellow. Also, I will make a Elite 4 page for the game too, with screenshots and movesets if I can. I reckon I should be able to do this for all the games except for DP (can't get shots), although as mentioned before it will take me a while to do all of it.

--Estuve

Hey everyone. It's great to see everyone taking such an interest so quickly in the Pokemon wiki, but imo some things are really just too short. Part of the reason for having the wiki is to provide detailed information about the series, not just some basics that can be found anywhere on the Internet. Take this item compendium for example. It's good that we have all the names and effects, but where can you find them? One thing you **need** to remember is that we're trying to provide the most detailed, accurate information possible. Simply saying something like "A Potion will restore your Pokemon's HP by 20 points" on an item page and that's it is accurate, but it isn't detailed. Where can you find the item? How much will it cost if you have to get it from a store? Who will give you one for free?

These are just some of the questions that need to be thought of and answered when adding content to a wiki. I'm not trying to bash anyone here, but it is definitely something that needs to be taken under consideration. :)

-Avalith

Some feedback on Estuve's Gym Compendium (Yellow) page. I think every single page that links off from a hub page has to link BACK to the hub page, as well as include an introductory paragraph explaining what that page is and how it relates to Yellow. This part is critical to help people find the page on search engines.

Also, I'm sure the Admins and other more experienced wiki contributors can correct me here - but perhaps we should consider using categories to group all pages under each game? That way the hub page and all pages belonging to that hub for instance would belong to Yellow.

Redemption

I have added a little introductory paragraph, with a link to the hub in said paragraph. However, it seems the link isn't showing up in blue - I will try and fix it now. Is that paragraph long enough or does it need more? Just to check - does anyone feel I need to go into more detail in each page?

Fixed the link - turns out it was just me being thick.

Estuve

Categories are indeed a must, Redemption. One of the most important parts of a wiki is interlinking. The more links a person clicks, the more articles they can find and the faster they can find them as the more likely it is for that page or a page that links to it to appear in the wiki search. Categories are an excellent way to link multiple pages together.

-Avalith

[edit] Infobox

Guys don't forget to use the Infobox tag when making the profile.

-Killdozer

Yep, all the games pages have info boxes and neo tabs, now they just need some good content.

-ShinyMilotic

I was the one that came up with it and I get no credit or anything? I dont need big bold letters but comon ¬_¬ Tut-Tut.

-Benedict

... Wikipedia uses them for all their games... We were always going to do it anyway.

-ShinyMilotic

[edit] Main Page Colours

Okay I played around with the coluors on the main page since they were boring and it can always be un-done, what does everyone think?

-ShinyMilotic


I hate it. It looked better the other way. Yellow just is just so not good. Change it back if you can.

-Benedict

I think it was really hard on the eyes when I saw it last night. But now it looks pretty good to me. Instead of getting rid of it yet I would ask Benedict to check again, and if enough people still have it I think you could tweak it and make it look less harsh but still fit the colour spectrum you want (yellowish). That's just IMO, getting more feedback would be good.

Redemption 16:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More details Needed!!!

Hi everyone. I know that everyone's doing a great job laying out the groundwork, but please if you are creating the "shells" for each pokemon try to write a brief description to go with it, and perhaps we should develop some default categories to put in place like what the digimon wiki people are doing. Having no text at all severely compromises the chance that someone arriving here from a search engine will do anything to help - so PLEASE write SOMETHING (original of course). I suggest at least 50-100 words just to start the page off, and preferably closer to 100-200.

Also we should start organizing the team to have a "follow-through" pass of each page made so that anyone who knows details about each pokemon will be able to add more and more information to flesh the pages out. It ISN'T enough to have lots of characters made if they each have little to no information, so please help out as you can and recruit more forum members to do so as well! It doesn't hurt to have staff create a list on the Main Page of the ones they want people to work on teh most, or create a full list in the forums and ask for members to help.

Redemption 17:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I really like the colours - fits perfectly with the logo colours. Also agree with everything Red says - I reckon we need more to flesh out the pages. I am thinking Dex entries, Attacks, Pictures and maybe Base Stats?

--Estuve


Me and Orlando have been working on a format for how the individual Pokemon pages will look and are including as much information as we can think to put in. Our first test subject is Treecko and we're kind of playing around with it to see how everything is going to work out. If anybody would like to help feel free to contact either of us, we would be happy to include you.

~Nightwing7

I like what you are doing with those pages, NW. I think the tables look very neat.

Just looking for a little feedback on my Yellow Gym Screenshots. I can't fit picture of each of the leader's pokemon on a page, but I am just wondering if everyone else thinks the pictures are OK? Also, need feedback on the Blaine pic - I stupidly managed to get rid of the other two shots I had that weren't mid-Surf. I can always clean it up, if necssary.

--Estuve

I like the treecko page, but remember that all the Pokemon pages will need info about every generation they are in because they learn different attacks etc.

-ShinyMilotic


Yes, that information should be added, however it took us two days to do Treecko's page, and while it will be much easier now that we have a format almost done, we would prefer to focus on the fourth generation for right now. Once we finish with the current generation (the one most likely to provide relevant information) it will be much easier to go back and add pages for past games.

~Nightwing7


Nightwing and I have now finished with the Treecko page, are there any suggestions as far as changes go before this becomes a template for the remaining Pokedex entries?

~Orlando


It looks great to me, for now that is what all the Pokedex entries should be, will add more stuff over time probably.

-ShinyMilotic

Blah, now its time for someone to sadly disagree. Personally, I find the Treeko page too crunched up. The base stats, I find the colors very drastic of a change and the way the font is aligned looks pretty bad for me. On the infobox, it should link to the abilities, type, and egg groups. That way they'll show up on the wanted page and someone will write them. It will be easier later on if you do that because you won't have to edit several Pokemon's pages adding in the links. Now, the move tables, I find very, very untidy. They should be linked to the moves so you can build a database of Pokemon that learn the specific move, rather than giving the information in each Pokemon's page. I think that there should only be the columns for Level, Attack Name, Power, Category, and Contest. Everything else could be better explained on the move's individual page. Everything right now seems untidy and would be a pain to clean up later; fixing some of the small details now will save you trouble later on.

Anyway... I might add some stuff in here later if I can get some free time. I can cover the third or second generation of games if you want. Just tell me what you want, here or in a PM. All appreciated. Oh, and for what its worth, I think the Main Page looks pretty darn good color-wise.

- orez

I've been working on Unown as a test subject for a standardized Pokemon profile. Info box is stolen from Treecko though, I am sure that has became standard. As for information, there isn't as much as it needs. Look at unown again to see what I think it should be like.

Pm for suggestions :D -Msnges3

[edit] Information

Hi guys, i've just been going through a few of the Pokemon posted up in their own pages and after a brief search on the internet regarding the content i have found the exact same text on another page on the Official Pokemon website. I would urge you not to do this and to reform the pages in your own words using a variety of texts.

Thanks.

[edit] Plagiarism

This is just a reminder that you should not be copying and pasting information from any site, Wikipedia or otherwise. All content on the wiki must be original.

Avalith\ Wiki Admin

[edit] Pokemon Green

Since Pokemon green was somehow left out of the mix, a page has been created for it and should be added to the main page (please and thankyou)
Msnges3

We don't have a Pokemon Green Forum, but we could hae a link to it in Blue since aren't they basically the same thnig?

-ShinyMilotic

Green

Actually they aren't the same. Green has some fundamental difference that should be addressed, as well as it being a different game. A article should be made.

Jon24hours 12:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay I'll add it, make sure to add some info on its differences to Red and Blue etc.

-ShinyMilotic

The original page wasn't exactly linked the main page. So I just copied everything I did a few days ago into that article. All is well now :D.

-Msnges3

[edit] Movies Pages

Someone made a page for all the movies, what are we going to do with them?

-ShinyMilotic

Looks Like we gotta watch the movies and make a summary of each. Also I notice that alot of the settings are based on real locations, maybe put details on some of them? Maybe comment on event pokemon givemn out at each movie too. Looks like I will be having a movie marathon.

-Msnges3

IMO, a small summary of the plot, any special appearances, and any notable happening would do for now. A character and Pokemon cast would be nice, too.

Also, you need the User: in the first part of your link. At the moment, ShinyMilotic is on the wanted pages, which it really shouldn't be, since User pages don't show up on wanted pages (even if they are empty). orez

I fixed us :D

-Msnges3

Okay thanks orez.


-ShinyMilotic

[edit] This really isn't the place for this

A wiki is not the place for tier listings at all. Its better suited for forum discussion or on pages only editable by a select few.

Personally I would like it to be taken off as the Wiki format is not beneficial to tiers at all and can actually be detrimental as any random person could change the page to something others don't agree with and it will just be people continually changing the page to what they think is right.

[edit] Categories

One more thing that I've seen around here is lack of categories. What exactly are the sort of categories you would want? Like, what would you like the category for the list of Pokemon to be? "List of Pokemon" or what...? Anyway, I think a section on the main page about adding categories would help get that out.

[edit] Pokemon Format

Is the Pokemon format up in the air at the moment, or is there any specific format you want to us to use? I know some of the minor details aren't as important right now, but would you like us to set it up similar to the Treeko page? Speaking of the Treeko page, I still feel that the move listing looks rather crunched up and it is rather hard to read. The move tables looks overly complicated too, especially for an average user to create.

- orez


[edit] Pokemon Listing Not Needed

Now I've seen that there are want pages for ALL the pokemon. Isn't Wiki, or overall Neo only about Gaming and Hardware? So wouldn't the only good thing for the Pokemon Wiki only be the games? I mean, there are over 400 different pokemon, and do you know how long that will take? I suggest that part should be taken off, mainly because it has no value.

- Killdozer

I don't see what is wrong with it. If people want to know stuff about a certain pokemon, and they came here seeking information, and it wouldn't be there, that wouldn't be good. Countless people go to site to see things like what levels pokemon evolve, or what moves the learn and when, and we shouldn't rob them of that just because we want to be lazy.

- cmh

@orez - I am still thinking of getting rid of some information from the move table, and linking the move to another page where it will show PP, Power, Accuracy, etc, but if I do that then I would need to link the other hundreds of moves as well. The move table isn't really hard to understand. It is basiclly a pattern if you study it well.

~Orlando

Maybe instead of an individual page for each pokemon, put it all into one page?

- Killdozer

@Orlando: Linking to hundreds of moves yourself, no. With the help of others, it should come along fine and build a better database of moves and Pokemon that learn them.

If you're talking about the pattern visually, you should be able to look easily and see what level a Pokemon learns it and how rather than searching through the columns. Separating the egg moves from the level moves would be nice too. If you cut off the columns then align the table to the center, it might look better.

If you're talking about the table from an editing point of view, I can understand that, but do you mind linking me to where I could find the information on table making?

Anyway, I'm going to use my User page on here to experiment a little with the Treecko page and its looks. If anyone wants to test any looks or anything, go and try whatever there.

By the way, I'm being critical about the page's looks to make it look better. It looks decent now, but it could be much better and its better to address this now. - User:orez

[edit] Pokemon Listing NECESSARY!

Pokemon listing is absolutely necessary for this. Pokemon are an aspect of the game. "They have no value" is no argument and very untrue as they are the main part of the games. Very very bad idea, no offense.

@ Second Point of Killdozer's: One page would be horribly messy. The only time I could ever see it working would be on Pokemon in a single evolutionary line, but that would still look very cluttered. There is a lot to know about a single Pokemon and even one page for two Pokemon is absurd.

- User:orez

Yeah A page for each Pokemon is necessary, every Pokemon, as bad as Bidoof and as awesome as Milotic gets full detail.

Orez, if you think you can make a good design for the Pokemon pages you can experiment with a Pokemon page which hasn't been done yet.

- User:ShinyMilotic

I made a Pokemon page. Is this layout good for a design?

- Zotic

[edit] Moves and Natures

I have added a Hub page for the Moves, and made a list of natures. I created a large database of pokemon information a while ago and so i can spit out these hub pages pretty easily. Do we want one for all the pokemon as well? I'm thinking a table of links with at least the type combinations on it. Also this stuff should be linked to from the main page.

- User:PureStealth

[edit] Main Page Header

What shall we do about this, perhaps have a contest in the forums?

ShinyMilotic

I PMed GS for a contest that I can make in the general Pokemon Forum. I am waiting for a reply. You must of read my mind. I did that yesterday. In fact- I think ill just make it... Well if I don;t get a reply.

Benedict

No don't start the thread yet, perhaps a staff should do the contest, we'll see.

ShinyMilotic

I won't. Ow can I do it please? (Or alternatively to promote me)

Benedict

We'll see what Avalith and GS say about it. ;)

ShinyMilotic

About Promotion? :o You proberly mean Making the thread :o Kay then.

Benedict

Definately a staff member should host it. Also, it should be in the Diamond Forum, not GPF. Diamond attracts more attention.

Minirizzle

Well add me to the judges list then :@

Benedict

No. Not at this time.

Minirizzle

Wwhhyy? Oh yes- When are we going to host this?

[user:Benedict|Benedict]]

Expect it up within a couple of days, I'm just working on another related thread at this very moment.

Minirizzle

[edit] Rayquaza

I'm currently trying to make the Rayquaza page and pages relating to it (ie Air Lock ability) more detailed. Any help is appreciated. :)

Zotic

I've been doing the exact same thing (making pages more detailed) but not specific to Rayquaza. Been going through the abilities, should have all of them finished in the next couple of days, then I'll get to work on some more attacks. I've been using this sort of format for abilities (Filter, Flame Body, Wonder Guard) and this sort of format for attacks (Substitute, Hail, Rapid Spin). Any additional things to put in or changes I could make to the layout?

Ajnidehs

[edit] Natures

On the Pokemon Diamond page, I saw a link to "Nature", undone, and I made it. Then after I finished, I just saw the Natures page, almost identical.

Should someone delete this? --> Nature

Silver_Raikou

Yeah I'll delete it.

-ShinyMilotic

A simple redirect would have been ok :P

PureStealth 02:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats

On becoming the first good ranked wiki, keep up the good work. :D

-ShinyMilotic

[edit] Redirects

Not sure how to do it myself, but I think that Attack and Move should be redirected to the Moves page (Attacks is already redirected there).

Another thing, there are going to be different links for the same name (for example, Psychic is a type and an attack, Dragon is a type and an egg group). Are we going to have a dissociation page like the real wiki?

Ajnidehs

I'll redirect them, and not sure about the second bit.

ShinyMilotic

[edit] Natures Page

For Diamond/Pearl, why is there a Natures page as well as a Nature (Additional) page?

Should they be combined?

--Slash Major 06:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll simply delete the second one, PureStealths was there first, if Silver Raikou wants to work on it, he can do so on that page.

Minirizzle

[edit] Standards

I think we need a standard for the various pokemon pages. There are some good pages being created with some good information, but the many different styles make it seem unprofessional. Since it is logical that a standard be created before all the pages are done (it is a lot harder to change afterwards) I think it would be best to decide on a single standard now before we go too far.

I've also been looking into the stat bars which seem popular, and it looks to me as if the ones that are done on the completed pages are coloured according to some arbitrary colour scale for the base stats... This is not the way we should be heading.. After talking with a few of our fellow wiki contributors, it was decided that there should be a standard for these stat bars as well. Wanting to steer away from the smogon type bars, with the red/yellow/green colour scheme, I developed a new one which is uses varying levels of red with a blue base to represent the strength of the stat. The formula is as follows:

Colour = Hex(255 - BaseStat) & Hex(BaseStat) & "FF" //Where "&" is a string concatenation

It seems to be quite effective, but if you guys want to give a little more input that would be fine. Here is a sample of some of the colours, with a made up pokemon which has base stats of 0/50/100/150/200/250:

Base Stats
Min-MinMaxMax+
HP
0
- 141 204 -
Atk
50
122 136 199 219
Def
100
212 236 299 329
SpAtk
150
302 336 399 439
SpDef
200
392 436 499 549
Spe
250
482 536 599 659

PureStealth 20:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes we need to start making all the Pokemon pages the same, instead of different styles, that one looks good to me.

ShinyMilotic

Completely agree, I think I'll write up some stuff to add in the thread regarding this. Also, this page should be periodically refreshed, do you guys agree? Maybe once every two weeks? Too much info will make it messy.

Minirizzle

Yeah I see it getting very messy and confusing in here, that seems like a good idea to me.

ShinyMilotic

[edit] Slight Typo

In the staff section, one of the staff is Naustical nonsense. I think the s should be removed, or edited to whayever account hes using now.


If I'm correct in what you're referring to I fixed it.

Nightwing7

I may be mistaken, but I believe he's gone back to his original account, megaman10.

Ajnidehs

Fixed.

Minirizzle